yadda yadda 2

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Posts by yadda yadda 2

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  14

  Gerrit Loesh (Bro. Deletion) on what the GB doesn't know but assumes, and you know what happens when they assume.

  by neverendingjourney in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i saw losch at two assemblies and he struck me as the quintessential hardline prick.

  i don't know anything about internal gb politics (who does?

  ), but if this guy were to assume an informal leadership role, the watchtower would swiftly take a swift turn down hardline road.

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  Actually I like his voice...it has that calm, German/Dutch quality to it. He doesn't sound like a showboater. But he does sound very weary, tired.
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  21

  WILL THERE EVER BE A JW REVOLUTION?

  by african GB Member in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is there a possibility for jw's turning against the gb, perhaps by boycotting the "meetings" and fs?.

  in my opinion, i think we could be heading for something to that "effect"..... i have heard several "brothers" in my cong talking about the "need" to adapt to the ever changing world..... .

  are they gonna go mainstream and avoid a possible revolt?.

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  There will never be a 'revolution' or major schism unless they discard some or all of their major doctrines in favour of those taught by mainstream Christianity, as happened with the Worldwide Church of God after Herbert Armstrong died. As long as the Watchtower still teaches that blend of core beliefs that JW's regard as immutable and 100% unquestionable (no Trinity, no immortal soul, no hellfire, eternal life on paraide earth) that largely sets them apart from "Babylon the Great" with her pagan-derived dogmas, the Watchtower leaders can fiddle as much as they like around the edges of their creedal structure and nothing much will change. The day will probably come when future JW leaders make drastic changes or totally abandon many/all of their speculative, mostly chronology-based creeds and bad policies (which is already long overdue), but as long as the leadership sticks with those core teachings the great majority of JW's will always stay loyal to the Watchtower Society.
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  2

  Historical development of the "great crowd" doctrine by Judge Rutherford

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can anyone kindly refer me to a good article/source that covers the whole development of the jw's "great crowd" doctrine, from russells early views right through to the 1930's 'behold...the great multitude" convention announcement by rutherford through to today.. would be much appreciated..

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  Can anyone kindly refer me to a good article/source that covers the whole development of the JW's "great crowd" doctrine, from Russells early views right through to the 1930's 'Behold...the great multitude" convention announcement by Rutherford through to today.

  Would be much appreciated.
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  7

  When did you realize the Watchtower was beyond reform?

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a few years ago i held out hope, that if i was patient and waited on jehovah, he would correct things in his due time.. there was still a part of me that wanted to believe it was the truth - it was still part of my comfort zone, after all i was raised in the truth from infancy.. i took heart that people wanted to reform the organization rather than plot or wish its downfall.. websites such as http://www.jwreform.org/ and heart felt open letters written by those who wanted something better gave me hope that if enough people got together, real change might actually happen.. as time passes, and new discoveries are made concerning the untruths that the watchtower society has sold and promoted to us, it become evident that there is no possibility of reform - real reform, from a totalitarian spiritual government to a first century model of christianity.. tomorrow, activists from around the world will march in london at the g20 summit.

  the word is that the g20 group of finance ministers will not bring anything new to the forum, but will simpy discuss ways of trying to prop up the old financial order.. and so it is with the watchtower organization - there have been protests, letters written to the governing body, marches on bethel, tv documentaries on the jw child abuse problem, but what has really changed for the better?.

  the society is reactionary - it prefers the old system of doing things because it works for them.

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  The Watchtower religion is reforming (as in changing) but only in a reactionary way, incrementally, and so far not for the better.
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  7

  Did SOLOMON Consort With DEMONS?

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  was solomon a conjurer?.

  the demon belial appearing with his entourage of four lesser demons before king solomon.

  from jacobus de teramo's das buch belial, printed at augsburg, 1473..

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  Well I guess a 1473 painting definitely proves it, lol!

  Does cameo-d ever post anything remotely connected with reality and rationality?
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  14

  Newly "annointed"...

  by lurk3r in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  these ones who are in the organization that are "newly" annointed, it would seem they are kinda screwing things up for the gb and the society.

  heard of what "spiritual" experience these ones go through, to have them identify themselves as such?

  do all the "144,00" go through similar experiences.

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  There is no need to speculate on the matter or resort to mysticism and supernaturalism. Galatians 3 and Romans 8 tell us how we know if we are 'anointed' or not. There it states that if you cry "Abba, Father!" you are a son of God. It is not only the "anointed remnant" of the 144,000 who do that. Any Christian who has had witness borne to him that God is his Father and who prays to God as a real heavenly Father has received of the holy spirit. It has nothing to do with any supernatural experience or believing that you are going to heaven or anything like that. It is about a relationship with God, a father and child relationship.
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  28

  Who really is the slave? The Governing Body!!!

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  with the june 15th article (on jw.org) about the slave and governing body, we can see the planned progression of breaking the slave from the domestics.

  therefore, lumping the claimed-anointed and the great crowd in the same group for all intents and purposes.

  7:9;john 10:16) should not individual members of the anointed and the "other sheep" trust the slave appointed over them?

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  I don't quite see the point you are making.

  Are you saying that the Society is beginning to hint at two new ideas: 1. that the "domestics" is a separate class altogether from the "faithful slave" (the latter being the GB/Watchtower); and; 2. That the "domestics" includes both the anointed and other sheep/great crowd??

  The first point really would be new, as I believe they have always taught that the slave that is doing the feeding is a separate group somehow from the domestics,but is still a subset of the "domestics" - both groups being of the anointed class. It is clear from Matthew 24: 45-47 that there is a group/slave that is acting in a different role from the domestics, having been appointed over the domestics and belongings:

  Matthew 24: 45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU , He will appoint him over all his belongings.

  Here is the quote again from that Feb 15 article:

  "3 Jesus has appointed the faithful and discreet slave "over his domestics," that is, the individual members of the slave class, "to give them their food at the proper time." He has also appointed the-slave "over all his belongings." (Matt. 24:45-47) These "belongings"include the growing "great crowd" of "other sheep." (Rev. 7:9;John 10:16) Should not individual members of the anointed and the "other sheep" trust the slave appointed over them? There are many reasons why the slave class deserves our trust. Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave."

  How can the "belongings" be both the anointed class and the other sheep since both appointments of the slave over the domestics and the belongings are said to have occurred simultaneously in 1914/19, when no such group as the "other sheep" or "great crowd" was yet formed??? The "great crowd" is even now admitted by the Watchtower to be a future group! Bizarre.

  Just a side point. Leolaia said:

  "For instance: "About a hundred years ago the 'faithful and discreet slave' class again began to come forward as a loyal advocate of God’s Word. With the years it has become ever more visible and noticed by the world. The facts show that today this 'slave' is identified with the Watch Tower Society" (Watchtower, 15 March 1982, p. 21). Notice that it isn't identified as the whole anointed remnant, just the WTB&TS.'

  This Watchtower article did not say the anointed remnant is the WTB&TS; it said the 'slave' is identified with the Watchtower Society. There's a difference between being something and being identified with something (they did not say "is identified as.."). I think the Watchtower here was just making the point that that the 'slave' would only be found amongst Jehovah's Witnesses, who are the only group associated with or "identified with" the Watch Tower Society. I don't think this was intended to create the Watchtower Society per se is the slave, although some JW's may have taken this inference.
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  33

  VOTE WINE IN 09!! - New Memorial Video

  by V in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skppa3kzwbk.

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  Superb. Amazing graphics and love the voices.

  Here is the entire August 15, 1996 Questions from Readers article that deals with a question back then as to why there is a slight increase in partakers. Its embarrassing to read here how they say that "the facts" show that the calling was completed decades ago. Although they have since dropped their nonsense "calling ended in 1935" creed, we can expect another QFR dealing with essentially the same question soon given the rather alarming increases in partakers we have seen in the last three years. If there is another whopping increase this service year the pressure is really going to be on the buzzards at Brooklyn to come up with some explanation that will need to be better than the tripe dished out below.

  Questions From Readers

  reports for some years show that the number partaking of the Memorial emblems increased slightly. Does this suggest that many new ones are being anointed with holy spirit?

  There is good reason to believe that the number of 144,000 anointed Christians was complete decades ago.

  At Acts 2:1-4, we read about the first ones in that limited group: "Now while the day of the festival of Pentecost was in progress they were all together at the same place, and suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house in which they were sitting. And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed about, and one sat upon each one of them, and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance."

  After that, Jehovah selected others, and he anointed them with his holy spirit. Thousands were added in the very early years of Christianity. At the Memorial celebration in our time, the speaker often calls attention to the apostle Paul’s words at Romans 8:15-17, which mention that the anointed ‘receive a spirit of adoption as sons.’ Paul added that the holy spirit they receive ‘bears witness with their spirit, that they are God’s children, joint heirs with Christ.’ Those who truly have this spirit-anointing know it with certainty. It is not a mere wish or a reflection of an emotional and unrealistic view of themselves.

  We understand that this heavenly calling continued down through the centuries, though during the so-called Dark Ages, there may have been times when the number of anointed ones were very few. With the reestablishment of true Christianity near the end of the last century, more were called and chosen. But it seems that in the mid-1930’s, the full number of the 144,000 was basically completed. Thus there began to appear a group of loyal Christians with the earthly hope. Jesus termed such "other sheep," who unite in worship with the anointed as one approved flock.—John 10:14-16.

  The facts over the decades reflect both the completion of the calling of the anointed and Jehovah’s blessing on the growing "great crowd," who hope to survive "the great tribulation." (Revelation 7:9, 14) For example, at the Memorial celebration in 1935, attended by 63,146, those partaking of the emblems in evidence of their profession to be anointed numbered 52,465. Thirty years later, or in 1965, the attendance was 1,933,089, while the partakers decreased to 11,550. Moving 30 years closer, in 1995 the attendance jumped to 13,147,201, but only 8,645 partook of the bread and the wine. (1 Corinthians 11:23-26) Clearly, as the decades passed, the number of those professing to be of the remnant greatly decreased—some 52,400 in 1935; 11,500 in 1965; 8,600 in 1995. However, those with earthly hopes have been blessed, and their number has increased abundantly.

  The most recent published report is for the year 1995, and it shows 28 more partakers than in the preceding year though the ratio of partakers to those attending did actually drop. On balance, that a few more chose to partake of the emblems is no cause for concern. Over the years some, even ones newly baptized, have suddenly begun to partake. In a number of cases, after a while they acknowledged that this was an error. Some have recognized that they partook as an emotional response to perhaps physical or mental strain. But they came to see that they really were not called to heavenly life. They asked for God’s merciful understanding. And they continue to serve him as fine, loyal Christians, having the hope of everlasting life on earth.

  There is no need for any of us to be concerned if a person begins to partake of the emblems or ceases to do so. It really is not up to us whether someone actually has been anointed with holy spirit and called to heavenly life or not. Recall Jesus’ solid assurance: "I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep." Just as assuredly, Jehovah knows those whom he has chosen as spiritual sons. There is every reason to believe that the number of anointed ones will continue to decline as advanced age and unforeseen occurrences end their earthly lives. Yet, even as these truly anointed ones prove faithful till death, in line for the crown of life, the other sheep, who have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, can look forward to surviving the impending great tribulation.—2 Timothy 4:6-8; Revelation 2:10.
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  55

  "mass exodus coming up in August 2009".

  by hubert in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this was written in the topic...."blood lawsuit goes forward against the org.

  conference call sat.

  march 28".

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  Be lucky if 10 active JW's even notice these 10 actions to create a 'mass exodus'. Pah.
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  12

  10 Deeper Challenges To Watchtower Theology

  by Spook in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have begun preparing an outline for what i think is an untapped market of opposition to the watchtwoer.

  i will post part one of an outline after this explanation.

  please feel free to pm with additional thoughts.. 1. most criticism of the watchtower in print has either (a) focused on very specific doctrinal issues or (b) socio-theological criticism or (c) apologetics from other christian sources.. 2. there is a pronounced lack of general philosophical arguments directed against the internal logical integrity of the jehovah's witnesses core theological beliefs.

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  Do you really think any Jehovah's Witnesses are going to give this any thought whatsoever?